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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 17, 2012 23:33:00 GMT -5
Fred Plante @freddyplante
@the_Creasy Rumors are rampant that #Coyotes are #DONE .. I cannot confirm anything, but it's what's making rounds tonight. #Nordiques
Retweeted by swervinmervin
At about 11:00 tonight - not sure who tweeted this first - freddyplante or The_Creasy
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 17, 2012 23:42:02 GMT -5
Daniel Blanchet @mxdan316
Bon! Demain commence LA semaine ULTIME. Nous avons franchis de grandes étapes, surmonté les obstacle. Prochaine étape: les #Nordiques! #LNH
Good! THE ULTIMATE week starts tomorrow. We crossed the main stages, overcame the obstacle. Next step: the Nordic #! # NHL
About 10:40 CDT
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 17, 2012 23:53:14 GMT -5
Actually, Fred Plante quotes the Jets Hockey Forum - I think it's wolfmannick - stating that the team will be known as the Coyotes at the draft, but will be the Nordiques by the following week.
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 17, 2012 23:56:59 GMT -5
The Nordiques board did not originate the rumour. However, they say that there are multiple sources confirming this. Wolfmannick appears to have had a source, but did not reveal it. The Nordiques board is apparently getting some of its members to try to check it out independently with their sources.
As of 11:56.
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Post by NHLJets2point0 on Jun 18, 2012 0:02:03 GMT -5
OK
So we are all ready to run down to Tache and Provencher when TVS break the story that Jamison is out and PKP has acquired the team!
This will likely break some BIG chunks before Bettman puts on some pancake so PLEASE post anything significant here!
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Post by NHLJets2point0 on Jun 18, 2012 0:05:46 GMT -5
FYI NHLWiki, BCMikeJetsFan and NE_Dris50 are having a long discussion on twitter about the possible COG BOG actions that could push the situation over the edge...
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 18, 2012 0:20:21 GMT -5
Joined in as well. Calling it a night. Hey check out the May 19 audio on the other thread! I was looking for this a few months ago, and saved the link! Stephen Brunt - what a guy!  |
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Post by NHLJets2point0 on Jun 18, 2012 0:37:14 GMT -5
Owner be damned NHL’s Devils disaster plan: Take ’em over By JOSH KOSMAN Last Updated: 12:21 AM, June 18, 2012 Posted: 10:21 PM, June 17, 2012 NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is preparing to take control of the money-losing hockey franchise in the event Vanderbeek fails to refinance the Devils’ debt before a looming Aug. 14 deadline, The Post has learned. In recent days, the commissioner’s office has told potential suitors to be ready in case he moves on the team and pushes Vanderbeek aside, a source close to the situation said. Vanderbeek is near a deal to sell a majority stake to a mystery investor, which would allow him to keep control of the Eastern Conference champions, one source said. The proceeds from a sale would be used to repay lenders much of the $77 million in past due debt. But while Bettman has said publicly that he expects the Devils’ financial situation to be resolved soon, his behind-the-scenes moves suggest he’s far from confident that a deal will get done. His skepticism shouldn’t come as a surprise. Since the Devils missed a principal payment in September, Vanderbeek has said several times he was close to a solution to the team’s debt woes, only to come up short. When the team made it to Stanley Cup finals this spring, the team’s lenders agreed to extend the deadline for when they could put the team in default from early July to August, sources said. Asked about the Devils before Game 1 of the finals last month, Bettman said Vanderbeek “is working to both refinance the debt on the club and equity-raise, and he appears to be fairly confident that he can pull this off in the next few weeks.” Bettman added, “Since I’ve been in touch with the banks on a regular basis, we seem to be on track.” The commissioner is expected to give Vanderbeek a few more weeks to complete a financial restructuring but will not wait until the Aug. 14 deadline passes, sources said. The NHL would likely force him out sooner to give suitors enough time to study the team’s financials and make an offer to lenders before the bankruptcy deadline, according to sources. Moreover, new investors may not want to buy the team and leave Vanderbeek in charge, sources added. Faced with losing control of the team, Vanderbeek could also decide to put the Devils into bankruptcy and buy himself several months to arrange a restructuring plan. Thanks to their success on ice this year, when the team staged an upset win over the New York Rangers in the Eastern Conference Championships, the Devils could go from losing $20 million in the regular season to almost breaking even next year, sources said. The Devils declined to comment, while the NHL did not return calls. www.nypost.com/p/news/business/owner_be_damned_XgXuEUTpV1Ek0Xc8rl9MdI#ixzz1y7V8RGNG |
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Post by NHLJets2point0 on Jun 18, 2012 0:40:22 GMT -5
OK So the 4 Horsemen of the apocalypse are Paledeau, Jamison, Vanderbeek and Darcy Olsen
We've heard from 2 already, now we hear from Jaimson, and finally PKP calls his news conference. This could be into the 48 hour snap count people !!
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Post by jamiequirk17 on Jun 18, 2012 6:19:15 GMT -5
I just find the saga in Phoenix surreal...and if we have a sudden, overnight...it's done in Phoenix and we're moving to Quebec scenario...wow, is all I can say...I am sure the diehards in Quebec are feeling much like we did a year ago...however, this time, it's already June 18th...their turnaround time would be so short to get things ready for next season (lockout anyone?)
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 18, 2012 6:42:14 GMT -5
I just find the saga in Phoenix surreal...and if we have a sudden, overnight...it's done in Phoenix and we're moving to Quebec scenario...wow, is all I can say...I am sure the diehards in Quebec are feeling much like we did a year ago...however, this time, it's already June 18th...their turnaround time would be so short to get things ready for next season (lockout anyone?) Yeah - it seems pretty clear that the likelihood of a lockout is influencing everyone's timing this year. "Surreal" is bang on. The depth of this feeling is amplified by the length of time (i.e. in years) that the NHL is taking to deal with what is going on in Glendale. |
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 18, 2012 7:01:43 GMT -5
The people on the Nordiques board sound convinced that the plug has indeed been pulled on the Coyotes. They agree with the view expressed by Wolfmannick that the official announcement will occur during the week following the draft, but before July 1. ZoneNordiques www.zonenordiques.comIf you are checking in there, please note that I am referring to comments on their live chatting board, which is not preserved on the site. The actual site entries refer to the Wolfmannick comments on the Jets Hockey Forum. |
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Post by jamiequirk17 on Jun 18, 2012 7:18:57 GMT -5
The draft is this Friday and July 1st is late next week...
Almost incomprehensible that they could get a franchise up and running in such a short period of time..that would be less than the Jets had...
But, a lockout would buy them some more time...
Did Ray Bradbury write this? Strange, strange, strange...
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 18, 2012 8:00:58 GMT -5
The draft is this Friday and July 1st is late next week... Almost incomprehensible that they could get a franchise up and running in such a short period of time..that would be less than the Jets had... But, a lockout would buy them some more time... Did Ray Bradbury write this? Strange, strange, strange... LOL! |
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 18, 2012 8:06:00 GMT -5
As of 8:00 CDT, QcFan on ZoneNordiques states that multiple sources have confirmed that the NHL has unofficially removed the life support on the Coyotes. "The plug has been pulled".
It is also stated that the announcement will come AFTER the draft.
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Post by jamiequirk17 on Jun 18, 2012 8:39:07 GMT -5
WOW!!!!
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 18, 2012 12:05:38 GMT -5
The debate in the chat room right now on ZN is why they would wait till after the draft. Knowing how the NHL operates (just a little), it probably doesn't surprise anyone in Winnipeg. It's just our friends controlling the message and its timing!
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Post by jamiequirk17 on Jun 18, 2012 13:18:20 GMT -5
I tried going to that discussion, but my minimal French didn't cut it...so...you have to keep us posted! The NHL marches to their own agenda/timeline, nobody elses!!  |
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 19, 2012 9:51:46 GMT -5
Nothwithstanding what you may have read on some other web sites [  ], the time zone difference from Winnipeg to Arizona is only ONE hour, not 2. Since the apparent start time for the case is 10:30 Arizona time, that puts the start time at 11:30 Winnipeg time - assuming that they keep that schedule. -your friendly neigbourhood geographer and scribe  Update on timing - well - Somehow they are on Pacific time. I checked a map and it said Arizona was Mountain time. But what do I know? |
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Post by jamiequirk17 on Jun 19, 2012 10:36:51 GMT -5
Yes, but what is the time in Thailand...so that those who are following the goings on in Phoenix from the far east can coordinate their times...LOL
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 19, 2012 12:48:50 GMT -5
Correction - it is actually @lisahalverstadt covering it today, not @smunshi
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 19, 2012 14:39:59 GMT -5
Here's the last 20 or so of Lisa's tweets, with the Judges order to the separate parties:
@lisahalverstadt
#Coyotes hearing adjourned. Judge Fink leaves chambers.
Judge Fink: I expect to enter an order soon. #Coyotes
Judge Fink asks both parties to work on draft today and turn it in by Thursday morning. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: I expect a one paragraph order. Perhaps #Glendale and Goldwater could agree on wording. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: There was a request that I invalidate the entire ordinance. I'm only willing to say section 7 is inoperable. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: We're simply declaring emergency portion of ordinance is invalid. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: Emergency clause is not operative but doesn't need to be ruled invalid. #Coyotes
Birnbaum interrupts.
Judge Fink: I am inclined to rule that section of ordinance which mentions emergency clause be invalidated. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: I am concerned to a certain extent about the emergency clause issue but don't think another meeting is necessary. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: I would like to take what we've heard today under advisement so I can make a reasoned decision. #Coyotes
Sitren: We request that court rule vote on #Coyotes deal be ruled invalid.
Sitren: If #Glendale proceeds with the #Coyotes deal, taxpayers could face irreparable harm. It's a 20-year deal.
Sitren: Purpose of competitive bidding is to make sure there is no favoritism and taxpayers get the best deal. #Coyotes
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 19, 2012 14:44:38 GMT -5
Some more of Lisa's tweets:
Sitren: #NHL negotiates with potential #Coyotes buyers but competitive bidding requirement applies for services #Glendale wants.
Judge Fink: What would a new competitive bidding process work? Would it include #Coyotes and arena operations?
Sitren: This deal looks like favoritism. #Coyotes
Sitren: We don't know if someone else would be willing to manage #Coyotes arena because #Glendale hasn't asked for other bids.
Sitren: It would be very easy for #Glendale council to gather again to vote and make clear it doesn't immediately go into effect. #Coyotes
Sitren: Taxpayers only have one shot at referendum and emergency clause could cause irreparable harm to effort. #Coyotes
Sitren: Anyone who seeks referendum or looks at ordinance would think it passed as emergency unless they've heard otherwise. #Coyotes
Sitren: It may be helpful for you to see the ordinance. You'll note copy of ordinance lists emergency clause. #
Judge Fink calls Goldwater attorney Carrie Ann Sitren back to the microphone. #Coyotes
Judge Fink is back. #Coyotes
Judge Fink calls for 15 minute recess. He says he'll be back on the stand at 12:15 p.m. PST. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: Voters can decide if #Coyotes deal should be overturned. The court shouldn't.
Birnbaum: Goldwater is trying to overturn decision of public body. Council also voted not to delay #Coyotes vote.
Birnbaum: We shouldn't be here on an emergency basis. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: This can't be compared to other cases. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: Management agreement is unique service so it's outside the scope of competitive bidding. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: If #Coyotes leave, Jamison loses $350M.
Birnbaum: We've been looking for three years. Many can provide the service but only Jamison can deliver the #Coyotes for 20 years.
Birnbaum interrupts. "No, no."
Judge Fink: "That does seem to be self-created here." Says others could manage the arena. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: The circumstances here are unique. #Glendale wants the #Coyotes to stay. "Unique circumstances cannot be competitively bid."
Birnbaum: Jamison group isn't interested in acquiring #Coyotes absent the ability to run the arena.
Birnbaum: #Glendale code says when you have a unique need, competitive bids may not be possible. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: Couldn't you put the word professional in front of any job title? #Coyotes
Birnbaum: To suggest professional services aren't required at #Coyotes arena is tough.
Birnbaum: It might be a professional service of we're talking about 100-story building. Only certain companies would do that. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: What about a window washer? Doesn't he have specific skills?
Birnbaum: "With respect judge, you and I could not run this arena." #Coyotes
Birnbaum: Economists aren't included in list of exceptions; clearly that requires for specific skills. Operation of #Coyotes venue applies.
Judge Fink: I didn't hear property managers listed as exceptions. Asks Birnbaum for his definition of professional service. #Coyotes
Birnbaum reads from #Glendale code on bid requirements. Says this professional service should be excluded from requirements. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: #Coyotes arena is high tech facility. The notion that it it's operations don't constitute a professional service is preposterous.
Birnbaum: Monarch, which came to #Glendale about arena assistance, didn't have proper professional skills. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: We admit that it didn't pass as emergency. #Coyotes
Birnbaum acknowledges it's on the books as an emergency measure. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: It strikes me as odd that #Glendale residents who look up ordinance will see that it passed as emergency measure when it didn't.
Birnbaum: At least one party in Goldwater suit went to #Glendale city clerk's office to get referendum papers already. #Coyotes
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 19, 2012 14:49:58 GMT -5
And here are the remainder of Lisa Halverstadt's tweets from the hearing:
Birnbaum: "The emergency clause never took effect." Wrote a letter to Goldwater saying the same. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: Need 5 of 7 council members to approve for an emergency measure to take effect immediately. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: "The city never said it could enforce an emergency clause." #Coyotes
Birnbaum: City attorney drafted ordinance for lease provisions, though Goldwater stated otherwise. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: We don't have evidence from Goldwater to support other argument. #Coyotes
Judge Fink is listening to Birnbaum and taking notes. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: We could lose #Coyotes if the vote is invalidated. Elliot Pollack has said #Glendale would lose $177M if team leaves.
Birnbaum: Goldwater must meet high burden of proof and I haven't heard hardships for plaintiffs. #Coyotes
Birnbaum: We don't want delays. "That may in fact cost us the deal and the city of #Glendale a professional hockey team." #Coyotes
Birnbaum: Goldwater can only speculate that #Coyotes and arena operations may be separated.
Birnbaum: Jamison is willing to contract and play in #Coyotes arena for 20 years if and only if he gets arena fees.
Birnbaum: We submitted affidavits from city attorney and economic analyst that can explain operation of #Coyotes arena require pro services.
Birnbaum: Cooper found she didn't have authority to block #Coyotes vote but made "unfortunate" comments after she ruled against Goldwater.
Birnbaum: "The city is not in contempt of any order." #Coyotes
Attorney Gary Birnbaum now speaking for #Glendale. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: If NHL concludes it's done with #Glendale, one could argue there would be significant harm. May not allow for new #Coyotes deal.
Sitren: We haven't heard proof from #Glendale that delay on a #Coyotes deal would cause significant harm.
Judge Fink asks Sitren how she feels about bond for preliminary injunction. Sitren says #Glendale wouldn't suffer significant harm. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: #Glendale taxpayers can tell city, #Coyotes to "get the puck out" in current situation.
Judge Fink: Before #Glendale agreed emergency clause wasn't valid, taxpayers may have had reason for concern but now can try referendum.
Sitren: #Glendale could go forward with competitive bids on #Coyotes arena.
Sitren: If court strikes down the resolution or ordinance, #Glendale is free to move forward with this or another deal. #Coyotes
Sitren: "If an action is clearly against the public interest, that's all the plaintiff has to show." #Coyotes
Sitren: We are going forward in that case to have #Glendale held in contempt of court. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: These are arguments more appropriately made to Judge Anderson, who is hearing records case. #Coyotes
Sitren mentions #Glendale's failure to release two #Coyotes deal exhibits that must be released per court order in ongoing records case.
Sitren: Parties only must show there's harm. Have determination that #Glendale has acted outside bounds of law. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: I may just deal with the injunction issue today. Can you explain reasons for that again? #Coyotes
Sitren: Ability to collect signatures for referendum is severely impacted if this isn't handled as emergency matter. #Coyotes
Sitren thanks judge again and now will address city argument that expedited relief isn't necessary. #Coyotes
Sitren questions use of resolution to approve lease. Could confuse voters as there are two measures that purport to do same thing. #Coyotes
Sitren says most residents aren't aware emergency measure and city should make that clear, perhaps in another vote. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: I'm unclear why this is necessary. Goldwater could issue release and there's plenty of other publicity too. #Coyotes
Sitren: Public should know they have ability to attempt a referendum. #Coyotes
Sitren: #Glendale should have informed voters it wasn't approved as emergency clause. Should put out press release. #Coyotes
Sitren: "Unfortunately that's not the end of the story." #Coyotes
Sitren: #Glendale already said emergency measure didn't get enough support. #Coyotes
Judge Fink takes notes as he listens to Sitren's arguments. #Coyotes
Sitren: In other cases, courts have agreed. #Coyotes
Sitren: Arena management doesn't meet this standard. "I'm not aware of specialized training or degrees for arena management." #Coyotes
Sitren: Court ultimately concluded professional services mean discipline that requires specialization. Ex architects, attorneys. #Coyotes
Sitren cites court of appeals case where La Paz County cited same exception. #Coyotes
Sitren: #Glendale memo also said competitive bid wasn't required because it's a professional service. We don't believe this stands. #Coyotes
Sitren: Contract is between three different parties but it's not isolated. Falls without arena management fees.? #Coyotes
Sitren: #Glendale can't combine contracts to avoid competitive bidding requirement. #Coyotes
Sitren mentions SMG and Global Spectrum who are now competing to manage Oakland arena. #Coyotes
Sitren: I'm not aware of such an agreement. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: It's my understanding that there's already an agreement that ties #Glendale's hands. #Coyotes
Sitren: Jamison deal has three entities involved. Mentions other arena operators not connected to a team. #Coyotes
Sitren: #Glendale motion said city wanted arena operator connected to #Coyotes.
Sitren: #Glendale code requires competitive bids for contracts over $50K. City must have a written waiver and it doesn't. #Coyotes
Sitren describes $324M lease agreement and plaintiff claims on emergency clause, improper leasing and failure to put arena ops up for bid.
Goldwater attorney Carrie Ann Sitren thanks the court for hearing the case quickly. #Coyotes
Judge Fink asks Goldwater to begin arguments. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: We can hear evidence if need be but arguments today may suffice. #Coyotes
Judge Fink: I've read order to show cause memo filed by #Glendale and complaint so I'm ready to proceed. #Coyotes
Judge Dean Fink has arrived. #Coyotes
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Post by swervinmervin on Jun 19, 2012 14:56:55 GMT -5
I'm sure not a lawyer, so I'm not sure what to take away from this. But GWI certainly hasn't gotten all of what they were asking for so far.
But this isn't the only legal action going on. This judge said that GWI would have to take up some of their other issues with the other judge who is hearing the earlier action by GWI.
Overall - seems like the judge is holding off on a full judgement, which presumably would be covered in future hearings - e.g. whether CoG needs to get outside quotes on the arena management contract. Also seems like the judge is trying to adopt a pose as a biblical Solomon, by asking the 2 sides to write out an order together (!) as to the striking out of the emergency clauses in the resolution or ordinance passed by the CoG.
What seems to be missing is any resolution of the TIMING of the referendum. I inferred (?correctly or not?) that GWI was looking to get the original resolution or ordinance struck down entirely, so that it would give residents of Glendale more TIME to organize their referendum. It kinda sounds like the judge is not going to give them more time for that.
What does this mean for Jamison, the Coyotes, the COG and anyone else? Not really sure - maybe not much. As noted elsewhere, Jamison has bigger issues still, by many reports, than the Goldwater Institute.
And the NHL has bigger issues than anyone else.
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], the time zone difference from Winnipeg to Arizona is only ONE hour, not 2.